YGO! Tournament Options

[Raijinili]

Then why do you play Pokemon? Pokemon is totally luck-based.

[Raijinili]

Decks like the Heart of the Underdog/Exodia are so freaking stupid and unbalanced.

And not necessarily OTKs but FTKs. They are lame.

Besides, luck takes the fun out of everything. :[

Are you completely retarded? Underdog Exodia deck is also pathetically weak and luck based. What if I don't draw underdog for 10 turns? Oh whoop I have some acceptable normal monsters, I'm sure you can't possibly get a tribute out and wipe my defence off the planet.

Plus I have to stop if I draw Exodia middle piece AND other Underdog cards.



If you seriously think it is unbalanced you probably need to quit YGO, it's like calling Destiny Board unbalanced.


The game is incredibly luck based as it is, it's a deck of cards that you have to RANDOMLY SHUFFLE. You can only hope you get what you need.


tl;dr there is nothing wrong with FTKs or whatnot because they are absolute garbage unless the person using them lucks out. If you can't take the fact that a game relies on luck instead of purely on skill to play then go play something else.

This post has been edited by Irysa: Dec 2 2008, 03:39 AM

[Raijinili]

Bottom line: Exodia pieces and Destiny Board blow ass.
They are just gimmicks from the show that were put into the TCG so people that watch the show can relate.

On a side note, I have a nasty Fire deck. It's only somewhat influenced by the structure deck, and it's composed of about 69 cards. A lot, but when that amount of cards is allowed, this deck kicks ass like a

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Falcon Punch.

If I can get Rai and Rhia in, or another two for that matter, I'll organize it.

Do I matter?


This post has been edited by Neon_the_Chao: Dec 2 2008, 03:16 PM

[Raijinili]

69 cards? Why does it need that many for it to kick ass?

[Raijinili]

It shouldn't. :( Someone might want to do some deck restructuring.

[Raijinili]

Then why do you play Pokemon? Pokemon is totally luck-based.

The is SOME luck base factors in pokémon, such as critical hits and stuff with low accuracy, but it also takes brainpower and knowledge of game mechanics to be able to put together a good team. And pokémon is about statistics, like, I might put in an attack that has 80% accuracy, but not necessarily anything lower.

At least for me, any pokémon teams I make don't heavily rely on anything that was lower than 100% accuracy. The only moves I think I have on my team that rely on chance are Hydro Pump (85%) and Hypnosis (70%+Glasses bonus), and I generally don't use those moves unless I'm in a position in which I can't win any other way.

Are you completely retarded? Underdog Exodia deck is also pathetically weak and luck based. What if I don't draw underdog for 10 turns? Oh whoop I have some acceptable normal monsters, I'm sure you can't possibly get a tribute out and wipe my defence off the planet.

First off, no, thanks for asking. No need to be rude.

The probability of you getting a HotU is 7.5% when you have 40 cards in your deck, and have 6 chances to get it, each draw increasing the chance you will get it.

And what if you get it the first turn? There are 4 cards in that deck that will cease your drawing [one of which is on the field], meaning that you will draw an average of 11 cards a turn, giving you numerous options to stonewall. And, frankly, the attack stats of non-effect monsters can keep someone at bay for a long time.

If I'm lucky, that gives me 4 turns to beat you. And less if you get Exodia pieces fast.

Plus I have to stop if I draw Exodia middle piece AND other Underdog cards.

If you seriously think it is unbalanced you probably need to quit YGO, it's like calling Destiny Board unbalanced.

The game is incredibly luck based as it is, it's a deck of cards that you have to RANDOMLY SHUFFLE. You can only hope you get what you need.

Destiny Board is far from unbalanced, just as pretty much all theme-decks are. All I'm saying is that it isn't fair for a deck that wins by lucking out should beat someone who is actually good at the game, even if it's only once by accident.

Walrus is OBVIOUSLY a better pokémon player than I am, and it wouldn't be fair for me to say I'm better than him because I lucked out and got a crucial critical hit, or whatever [if that happened].

tl;dr there is nothing wrong with FTKs or whatnot because they are absolute garbage unless the person using them lucks out. If you can't take the fact that a game relies on luck instead of purely on skill to play then go play something else.

But the thing is, is that they CAN luck out, and there is an at least decent chance that they will. No one makes a deck and uses it competitively unless they can win with it. [Or are stupid.]

And non-FTK/Exodia/OTK decks DO rely on skill. Putting together a deck that can work in many situations is a reflection of skill. Sure, I could draw a hand with all tributes and lose, but my deck is made to prevent stuff like that from happening.

If all you do is download a .dek, and rely completely on luck, you really don't deserve to play.

I spent HOURS on my deck [when I used to play, the one I have now is just a copy of what I had] and TONS of money, and being bested by a luck-based, overpowered deck really sucks. I played in a few tourneys, and it happened a few times. And frankly, I'm still a bit butthurt about it.

I'm just saying that for a tourney, OTK's should be banned, purely for the sanity of others.



EDIT: And if anyone wants me to take a look at their deck and give a tourneyfag opinion, send me a PM or add me on AIM. I'd be more than happy to help you out.

This post has been edited by Aether: Dec 3 2008, 09:03 PM

[Raijinili]

Quit being such an eyesore. In those four turns before you get assraped by Exodia or OTK decks, you can form a defense that will protect you from it. Exodia is VERY easy to beat with cards that require your opponent to discard from the hand or deck to the graveyard, because once an Exodia piece gets into the graveyard, it's over for them. The same applies for OTK decks, which are easily beaten by RFG decks, or simply when luck doesn't side with the OTKer.

Point in short: Exodia/OTK isn't impossible to beat. Sure, you get your ass handed to you a few times, but think about those of us who run Exodia/OTK decks. Think about how many times WE get our asses raped.

And before you start spewing your skill shit, playing OTK decks can swing both ways as well. My deck in particular can still save my ass if I don't get the cards I need in time, since there are a few cards, be they monster, magic, or trap, that can buy me time to get the cards I need. In a few instances I've won with my OTK deck without ever using the OTK itself.

Adapting to circumstances and preparing for when things don't go your way is what truly should make "skill" in YGO. Quit being such a tourneyfag.

[Raijinili]

The is SOME luck base factors in pokémon, such as critical hits and stuff with low accuracy, but it also takes brainpower and knowledge of game mechanics to be able to put together a good team. And pokémon is about statistics, like, I might put in an attack that has 80% accuracy, but not necessarily anything lower.

What, and it doesn't take understanding of the game to make decks in YGO and to play appropriately? It's the same fucking thing, you rely on your accuracy of things hitting, crits, status ailments connecting, etc.

At least for me, any pokémon teams I make don't heavily rely on anything that was lower than 100% accuracy. The only moves I think I have on my team that rely on chance are Hydro Pump (85%) and Hypnosis (70%+Glasses bonus), and I generally don't use those moves unless I'm in a position in which I can't win any other way.

And not everybody plays this way. Do they ban OHKO moves in pokemon? No, because they miss half the fucking time. Thus making them horrid.

The probability of you getting a HotU is 7.5% when you have 40 cards in your deck, and have 6 chances to get it, each draw increasing the chance you will get it.

The probability of you drawing anything that can destroy, negate, or counter a magic or trap card, or force me to discard, is over 15% if you have any sense in building in a deck, and it gets higher every time you draw.

And what if you get it the first turn? There are 4 cards in that deck that will cease your drawing [one of which is on the field], meaning that you will draw an average of 11 cards a turn, giving you numerous options to stonewall. And, frankly, the attack stats of non-effect monsters can keep someone at bay for a long time.

I have to WAIT A WHOLE TURN to start my drawing. And on top if that, there are plenty of effect monsters with similar or better stats to my normal monster, as well as many other magic or trap cards that can be used to counter it.

If you complain about drawing underdog on my first turn, what about drawing destiny board on my first turn? It'll take roughly the same amount of time to get to the win.

If I'm lucky, that gives me 4 turns to beat you. And less if you get Exodia pieces fast.

More like, if you're not terrible and I am incredibly lucky that gives me 4 turns before I lose.

Destiny Board is far from unbalanced, just as pretty much all theme-decks are. All I'm saying is that it isn't fair for a deck that wins by lucking out should beat someone who is actually good at the game, even if it's only once by accident.

Walrus is OBVIOUSLY a better pokémon player than I am, and it wouldn't be fair for me to say I'm better than him because I lucked out and got a crucial critical hit, or whatever [if that happened].

How is destiny board NOT anymore unbalanced than Exodia underdog? It's just one more turn. (in fact, I have a draw deck that can burn through 35 cards in 1 turn to get to exodia, is THAT unfair too?)


And I find this hilariously ironic because Walrus has only won all of the pokemon tournaments we've had here due to pure LUCK against various people, such as thawing out in critical moments, etc.


Luck is a very large factor in games like this. If you really truly cannot accept it you need to quit or go find someone else to play with. What next, banning Arcana Force decks because of coin flips? Ban fairy box because you can't attack if I keep calling right? Ban Mind Crush because SOMEONE MIGHT GET LUCKY?

But the thing is, is that they CAN luck out, and there is an at least decent chance that they will. No one makes a deck and uses it competitively unless they can win with it. [Or are stupid.]

Apparently wanting to have fun is stupid.

And non-FTK/Exodia/OTK decks DO rely on skill. Putting together a deck that can work in many situations is a reflection of skill. Sure, I could draw a hand with all tributes and lose, but my deck is made to prevent stuff like that from happening.

You read what I said completely wrong. I said the game is based on luck AND skill. You seem to want to completely eliminate the luck factor, which is impossible for a game that is so centric around luck.

If all you do is download a .dek, and rely completely on luck, you really don't deserve to play.

I hate netdeckers too but you have no right to tell someone that they "don't deserve to play" if they want to play a gimmick deck for fun. Honestly, has nobody ever heard of having fun?

I spent HOURS on my deck [when I used to play, the one I have now is just a copy of what I had] and TONS of money, and being bested by a luck-based, overpowered deck really sucks. I played in a few tourneys, and it happened a few times. And frankly, I'm still a bit butthurt about it.

Then don't take it out on us for god's sake. As I have said again and again, the game has lots and lots of elements of luck in it. Even mindgames and bluffing come down to luck.

I'm just saying that for a tourney, OTK's should be banned, purely for the sanity of others.

And I'm saying no, that is never going to happen, we're never going to ban anything that isn't on the banlist, never, ever, ever.


If you can't deal with that, don't take part.

This post has been edited by Irysa: Dec 4 2008, 04:57 AM

[Raijinili]

They're horrifically weak and luck based. They're not banned in tournament play for a reason, they're effing useless.

Rather, the ones that don't work well aren't banned. The ones that do work tend to get vital pieces restricted.

Decks like the Heart of the Underdog/Exodia are so freaking stupid and unbalanced.

That's like saying that if you had a card that says, "If you have 40 cards in your hand, you win" is unbalanced.

Well, it is unbalanced, but it's not unfair. It's unbalanced in the sense that it's like a really long see-saw with a really heavy weight on both ends, making it either completely broken or completely useless.

tl;dr there is nothing wrong with FTKs or whatnot because they are absolute garbage unless the person using them lucks out. If you can't take the fact that a game relies on luck instead of purely on skill to play then go play something else.

If it wasn't for the restriction lists, we would still have Last Will Catapult Turtle Magical Scientist decks which could reliably come out on the first turn because of all the damn searchers.

Also, "Go play go".

The is SOME luck base factors in pokémon, such as critical hits and stuff with low accuracy, but it also takes brainpower and knowledge of game mechanics to be able to put together a good team. And pokémon is about statistics, like, I might put in an attack that has 80% accuracy, but not necessarily anything lower.

What is wrong with you that you think you need to be smart to be good at Pokemon? Are you that desperate to find something to feel good about?

"Putting together a good team" typically involves looking up what other people use and then copying out what you like.

And 80% accuracy? That's a 20% chance of failure, and a, what, 6.25% chance on top of that where you get a critical? So it's a 25% chance of damage not being anywhere near the expected value, which you will probably use about three times, thus giving you less than a 50% chance that neither you nor your opponent will be screwed over by chance.

The probability of you getting a HotU is 7.5% when you have 40 cards in your deck, and have 6 chances to get it, each draw increasing the chance you will get it.

That is pure stupidity. "Each draw increases the chance you will get it"? Without the effect cards cluttering your deck, how much draw power do you have that you can use to get a Heart of the Underdog? How many turns do you think you can defend without any trap or magic cards?

You might as well assume that he starts with his whole deck in his hand. You're already assuming that you can't do anything against vanilla monsters while he's trying to reach for that 7.5% chance that he gets once per turn.

As well, if the only non-Normals in the deck are the three Hearts and the Exodia, he would still have to have as many as one to four more turns before he can summon Exodia, and that's assuming you have nothing which can destroy his sole magic card (but what else would you use your M/T destroyers on?) and nothing to attack his hand. How much of a chance does he have to get out Exodia, with no M/T cards, if you dropped one of his pieces to the Graveyard, or even to the field?

There are 4 cards in that deck that will cease your drawing [one of which is on the field], meaning that you will draw an average of 11 cards a turn, giving you numerous options to stonewall.

That's... no. To get that kind of number, you would have to ALWAYS have the bottom card be a non-Normal.

If I'm lucky, that gives me 4 turns to beat you. And less if you get Exodia pieces fast.

Well, if your deck doesn't have enough spell destroyers for you to be able to get one within, what, TEN draws, it's not really his fault, is it?

All I'm saying is that it isn't fair for a deck that wins by lucking out should beat someone who is actually good at the game, even if it's only once by accident.

Then stop playing chance-based games.

Do you realize how incredibly stupid you sound?

Walrus is OBVIOUSLY a better pokémon player than I am, and it wouldn't be fair for me to say I'm better than him because I lucked out and got a crucial critical hit, or whatever [if that happened].

Non sequitur: Does not follow. You're assuming that "A can beat B" implies that "A is better than B". Your whole premise is absolute nonsense.

Sure, I could draw a hand with all tributes and lose, but my deck is made to prevent stuff like that from happening.

But as you admitted yourself, you can't draw a single Magic destruction card with ten draws. Some skill.

If all you do is download a .dek, and rely completely on luck, you really don't deserve to play.

If all you can do against a deck with a "decent chance to win" is to whine about it and prevent people from using it against you, then you really, REALLY don't deserve to play.

[Raijinili]

[Raijinili]

I might be interested in playing, as long as it's not a long line of meta-users.

[Raijinili]

RFP is about as close as this gets to meta.

[Raijinili]

Meta?

[Raijinili]

[Insert what Rai said here, cut for length.]

You know, you're right.

I shouldn't be whining about what kind of decks other people use and what not, I my argument was pretty weak.

I still don't like HoU, but, I promised Asaph and Sauce I would stop being a tourneyfag, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

But, FTK's SHOULD be banned from the Traditional bracket if we have one, because of the brokenness of the Magical Scientist FTK's, etc.

Anyway, I lost, so Asaph gets to run the tourney. I'm ready for it whenever.

And Neon, CLICK: [link]

[Raijinili]

Well, I follow the ban list, so I run a counter-meta deck, an as-of-yet incomplete spellcaster deck, and my main deck is mostly syncro counter.

I really could care less about FTK/OTK decks. In the long run, everyone has to lose to someone. I just try not to lose to those who meta.

That's all.

This post has been edited by Greifer: Dec 15 2008, 03:06 AM