Can someone seriously explain why... Options

[Irysa]

Star Ocean 3 is disliked, or thought of as "mediocre" by most gaming comminuties, yet Tales of Symphonia and The Abyss are regarded pretty highly? None of these games have particulary redeeming features in terms of dungeon design (except Star Ocean 3 has more), story (Abyss has an above average one, but it's nothing amazing), characters (Abyss has the best characters out of all 3, but many make no sense at times, and Abyss by far has the worst voice acting. In Star Ocean 3 it is merely stupid, but there is real emphasis and feeling in much of the battle quotes, Symphonia is so hilariously cheesy it's good, but Abyss takes itself too seriously to be fun), graphics (Symphonia wins, no contest) or anything else.

The only truly "great" material in these games is the battle system.
Both Tales games are incredibly slow to get started, and are ridiculously basic and undeveloped till lategame. Symphonia is hindered by being effectively set to 2d, and is very easy.
Abyss suffers from the same "lategame skills" syndrome, and the game is a chore to play till then. It's free run system, whilst good for being a first for the series, is badly implemented, as there is an overwhelming amount of delay in many situations where it is critical to be able to use it on reflex.

Both of them suffer from laggy controls, (taking actual seconds to get back to being able to run or attack from jumps, jump attacks, or artes/skills is ridiculous), and manual mode is extremely tedious to use in Abyss, since being a few degrees off from your aim without realigning yourself along the 2d plane causes attacks to miss.

Neither have impressive skills to use, with both games overusing "Symbol appears on ground, lights explode" as a mainstay for "ultimate" abilities.


Star Ocean 3 suffers from the "lategame skill" disorder somewhat as well, but makes up for it for actually being difficult, albiet frustrating at times. The fury system stops exactly what makes Tales games so easy, gangrapes. Mindlessly attacking with everyone at the same till will most likely end up triggering an AAA counter of some sort, that will stun, damage, or outright kill members of your party, or possibly heal the enemy you're trying to attack.
Because the game is designed with completely free full 360 motion in mind from the start (no free run), many attacks and abilities rely on your ability to make use of the field. (Abyss does this in small measures, but is still very easy to cope with otherwise, and FoFs are impossible to learn to correspondance unless you check an FAQ or try EVERY SINGLE ONE.)
The game as a whole is MUCH faster paced than any Tales game, and there is no incredibly frustrating delay on movement, dodging, or skill recovery. Almost as soon as you get a single scale bunny, you are running at close to full speed.
The game also does not limit you to a mere 2 skills per combo for 80% of it, and in fact, upon learning Berserk, it is possible to chain up abilities to over 8 or 9 uses, which can be further fixed with the item creation system, and refining reduction of fury costs.
The battle system actually ENCOURAGES chain combos from multiple characters, instead of merely spamming shit as Lloyd/Luke/Guy and letting your spellcasters rape, example;

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8NObPWKvbSU

Full Active mode is far better than Abyss' manual, as slight miscalculations are not punished so harshly, although both effectively do the same thing (cease your running up towards enemies when you input attack commands)

Star Ocean 3 actually provides a decent level of difficulty within it, as even on normal, many enemies are capable of killing you very quickly if you are not paying attention. On 4D, this escalates to almost anything having oneshot potential, but because of the reflex based combat system, it is nearly always the fault of the player and his or her skill, as opposed to controls, that caused game over.



SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS PLZ

I SORT OF LIKE SYMPHONIA, ABYSS IS TERRIBLE AND I'M 3/4 IN NOW, AND I THINK STAR OCEAN 3 IS BRILLIANT.

NO ONE AGREES.




Oh also, Abyss has shit music. Star Ocean 3 has great music, and Symphonia has pretty nice music.

This post has been edited by Irysa: Mar 22 2008, 08:38 PM

[Leyviur]

In Star Ocean 3 it is merely stupid, but there is real emphasis and feeling in much of the battle quotes, Symphonia is so hilariously cheesy it's good, but Abyss takes itself too seriously to be fun), graphics (Symphonia wins, no contest) or anything else.

I dunno, I liked Abyss' voicing more. Johnny Yong Bosch ftw. And as for graphics, outside of some hiccups I can honestly say Abyss' aesthetics win over, but SO3 has better overall graphical quality.

Abyss suffers from the same "lategame skills" syndrome, and the game is a chore to play till then. It's free run system, whilst good for being a first for the series, is badly implemented, as there is an overwhelming amount of delay in many situations where it is critical to be able to use it on reflex.

How so? I was able to use it very effectively, and each character has a different reaction time/speed, so you had to adjust accordingly. And lategame skills? Which ones are you referring to? Elaborate.

Both of them suffer from laggy controls, (taking actual seconds to get back to being able to run or attack from jumps, jump attacks, or artes/skills is ridiculous), and manual mode is extremely tedious to use in Abyss, since being a few degrees off from your aim without realigning yourself along the 2d plane causes attacks to miss.

On the first point, it's to make each character distinct. Guy is fast but has a longer pause time afetr attacks than Luke, who has average speed and pause time. I've used both and I've adjusted my playing style for Guy's abilities. And the second point is moot, since all you really need is practice. I almost never miss my target now.

Neither have impressive skills to use, with both games overusing "Symbol appears on ground, lights explode" as a mainstay for "ultimate" abilities.

Uhhhhhhhh... I don't recall anything of the sort in Symphonia, if this is a reference to FoE fields in Abyss, which I admit were idiotic and annoying to use effectively.

Star Ocean 3 suffers from the "lategame skill" disorder somewhat as well, but makes up for it for actually being difficult, albiet frustrating at times. The fury system stops exactly what makes Tales games so easy, gangrapes. Mindlessly attacking with everyone at the same till will most likely end up triggering an AAA counter of some sort, that will stun, damage, or outright kill members of your party, or possibly heal the enemy you're trying to attack.
Because the game is designed with completely free full 360 motion in mind from the start (no free run), many attacks and abilities rely on your ability to make use of the field.

The game was cheap as hell at times. And MP death was retarded. Innovative, maybe. But still retarded.

The game as a whole is MUCH faster paced than any Tales game, and there is no incredibly frustrating delay on movement, dodging, or skill recovery. Almost as soon as you get a single scale bunny, you are running at close to full speed.

True, true. But then comes the kicker: if you initiate any attack, your character RUNS AT THE ENEMY and won't stop unless s/he gets hit or the attack succeeds. I've had my character run after enemies for a good 5-6 seconds while the enemy ran around. This is immensely annoying, especially in a game where certain enemies can rape you if you give them the slightest opening. I never found this "Free Active" mode thing you talked about, or at least have no recollection of it. I need to replay the game.

Star Ocean 3 actually provides a decent level of difficulty within it, as even on normal, many enemies are capable of killing you very quickly if you are not paying attention. On 4D, this escalates to almost anything having oneshot potential, but because of the reflex based combat system, it is nearly always the fault of the player and his or her skill, as opposed to controls, that caused game over.

Sometimes deaths can be attributed to the AI. SO3's AI is atrocious. Sometimes my allies would just STAND THERE AND DO NOTHING while my controlled character got fucked over. If I had a little bit of support I could've gotten through it easily enough, but no, that bitch Sophia stood there and watched me get castrated. That's the last time I fuck you before going into battle, Sophia.

Oh also, Abyss has shit music. Star Ocean 3 has great music, and Symphonia has pretty nice music.

WTF. SO3's music is terrible.