First of all, this is a plot analysis kinda deal, so there are spoilers everywhere. Unless you've either already played the game or don't mind having the plot completely spoiled for you, then stay away. This is a project for people who just can't get enough of the world of Yggdra Union.

The wiki is here:
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Category:..._Community_Wiki

I hope to see this wiki become a general Yggdra Union information resource like one sees elsewhere on Wikia. Let's work together to give precious closure to everyone who may have found themselves perplexed by the game's unusually deep themes.

I wish I could to, but next year would be the hardest and shittiest year ever....yet. What's more, our school would end up at 5 PM instead of 1.15 PM.
Damn....can't do anything mate, I hope somebody would like to do this....

You can start by asking someone to make a bot to import all of the data we already have.

We need design help. We've got a timeline; a nation fact sheet; a partial plot analysis; and a Q & A section. We also need character analyses.

We want to make it spiffy. We were going to put up an items list, but instead we'll just link over to here.

I would like to ask the permission of the administration here to use their art archive (non-fanmade, with exception of sprites) for purposes of illustration and depiction.

And one thing you guys might be interested in, that would really help... it would be great if we could get screen captures of the army movement diagrams that appear before each battle. We could put these alongside the plot analysis for illustration.

You'll have to ask ChefMKT, in the chat room, for what you want.

I don't think you need permission for anything other than the sprite sheets, but... I give permission for the use of the dialogue faces and the item images. You don't need permission for anything with "Official", and Countdown, as those are hosted by Sting as well. The battle faces and the CGs are probably Rhia's work.

I really don't think there's a large enough fanbase for a wiki on Yggdra Union.

Really, and who makes that decision? You? By what authority?

Rather arrogant, don't you think?

A couple hundred people isn't a very large fanbase.

Well, what else would you have us do? I mean really, where else would we put this thing? All the Wikia game projects that I've heard of are adamant at limiting content to stated fact. And yet, here we have all these theories on the boards which are mostly inaccessible, difficult to find, and subject to deletion. Hey, I have enthusiasm for this game, and I think it makes important statements about the world we live in, if ever so subtly.

Further, I hope to set an example of sorts. All kinds of amazing XS discussion was eliminated recently from GameFAQs just because an admin had a problem with one poster's sigs. (supposedly) Had the XS community a wiki-like environment to host their ideas and speculations, that discussion would not have been lost. In essence, I want a firewall against extremism; against the real live Gulcasas who are determined to see their view squelch everything else, to abolish information itself they deem unsuitable. Creating a new wiki with atradition of tolerance for others' viewpoints is the only way to accomplish that.

That's kind of why we're here. We're a general Yggdra Union information database, among other things.

What "decision"? I gave an opinion, and even had I stated it as fact, I don't see how it requires authority to say that there aren't enough fans to make a reasonably useful wiki.

Tell you what: you set up a wiki here, and we'll move the information over there.

Fansize really isn't an issue. The question is how many leaders there are, and there are apparently some two dozen or so, which is really where all the effort comes from anyhow. The rest are just... around.

It's the leaders who want to push their ideas and express themselves, and after the game is done it is the leaders who are still talking about it months later. (except for the people who are just sticking around for the enthusiasm of the thing.)

Suffice to say, I see something very familiar in these characters, something that reminds me of myself and those who I seem to find most interested in productive conversation.

The problem is that nobody will agree on the story.

Why would they need to?

Boo, there's nobody will agree to what you're going to write. After all, there's a huge gap on the story that anybody can make a cork and stuck it up to make a bridge.

To avoid edit wars, maybe? What use is a wiki of information if the information is changing constantly due to disagreements that can never get resolved?

You know when I looked at the wiki article... It really needs to note the spoilers. Plus in the 'Characters' section, is there REALLY a need to list all their ages like that? Might as well just make a list for each one then try to paragraph it all.

And the Twin Valkyries names need to be either removed or you note the spoilers.

If you don't think edit wars exist, go look at the Riviera article at Wikipedia. I think we had an edit war there.

There is such a thing as consensus, which you can find once you single out the people who are "PoV warriors" and, well...

Once you get a solid agreement, you can "protect" the agreed-upon pages (which are just factual repositories, after all) and leave them be. If by some chance a detail has been omitted, you can reopen the page for editing to add that detail, then relock it. I mean, really: it's not like new developments are going to emerge from the game.

On the other hand, consider the PSP version and its changed/new additions. In that case, we would have reopen the pages to editing, and the PoV warriors would probably be back to provide proofreading. That's apparently their larger role in this, after all.... It is folly to seek compromise from people who cannot accept it, and I for one don't want to waste my energy anymore than I have to.

It's not like it's just one group of people. It's every fan of Yggdra Union that uses the Internet, including you. Occasionally a few people will agree on some points, but what will you do when there's an equal split on an issue? How are you going to decide who is "correct" and who is not? And to be honest, the majority is not always correct. That's why I'm not going to involve myself in this, even though I like the idea of plot analysis.

And I don't think I answered this before, but you can use everything on the site freely except for the fanart and fanfiction. And I can't see why you would use fanfics or fanart for something like this, so yeah.

Ignoring the question of how you can distinguish "PoV warriors" from "People whyo don't agree with me on what is fact"...

It doesn't matter. Make your wiki and ignore everyone else who will post in the topic.

However, besides straight data, there's not much that you can stick in your wiki without polluting the "facts" with "opinion". The game mechanics aren't that deep.

First of all, I make every effort to at least have a smidget of understanding of another's PoV. I cutoff at whether or not a person appears to be capable of recognizing another person's PoV as useful, something I do by analyzing their behavioral patterns and others' response to them.

As I said before, there are such things as opinion leaders, even on the internet. Studies have shown that opinion leaders, who are such because they are adept at understanding relativistic frameworks apart from their own, tend to be the dominant forces of opinion: people break towards their favored opinion leaders on an issue whenever there are conflicts of ideology. It's not about how many opinions there are, but about how many are appreciably different, because opinion leaders can remind people that they are in the end just seeing different sides of the same reality.

The way to bring people together on this particular issue is to agree on what is fact and what is speculation, and to set them apart.

So basically, if a person is useful, you get them to help, if they aren't useful, you call them dicks?

Although that does appear to be the grounds on which people are called "dicks" in general, I try not to be that blunt. After all, they may prove useful again later. The point is to keep them from doing damage that you can, quite literally calculate they will inflict.

I do wonder though if they find us just as predictable.... I remember how Gulcasa calculated Yggdra would chase him and ask myself, "how did he do that...?" It would be scary indeed to think ourselves as manipulable as they, but it could be the case....

Lust for revenge is a common human emotion. Gulcasa killed everything Yggdra had grown up with and loved, so she sought revenge. It's not that difficult.

Perhaps they don't consider themselves "PoV warriors"?

Perhaps, but... why did he kill in the first place? Why was he so single minded?

Why does Brongaa from the Gamefaqs YU forum look at the following character fact summary for Emelone as unacceptable?




His revision:



And when I reversed it, he reversed it again. And again. And again. It becomes a daily thing.


You can tell he's obsessing over it.

http://scratchpad.wikia.com/index.php?titl...81&oldid=278205

(I do not even remember hearing about when Nessiah's "current manifestation" emerged... where is he getting this from? Does he have some official guide I don't know about? (does one exist?) Is it in the unlockable game details?)


Just trying to give it "aesthetic feel" labels me a retard.

http://scratchpad.wikia.com/index.php?titl...05&oldid=278108

Differences in plot analysis. Plus, Ishiene was only doing what Emelone told her to do, so Ishiene wasn't really pursuing a war against the humans.

" I will carry out the queen's orders flawlessly!"

This shows right here why you would not be a good "defender" of the NPOV. He's changing it, so he's obsessive, but people who revert it back are not?

The problem is that you have no standards for your speculation, not that your opponent is a "PoV warrior". You're not even TRYING to reach a consensus on this issue, the first step of which would be to ignore the revert itself and address the issue in a discussion page. As head of the wiki, you should have citations for everything, before you can expect everyone else to do the same.

As for the revert itself, he made it clear as to what his problem was with the text as it stood. He did not think that the game supported the claim that Ishiene was to blame for the assault on humans.

By the way, your plot analysis sucks. There's 48 battlefields barring optionals and only doing one path, and it was Luciana who attacked Yggdra in BF34.

Emelone: That child, Ishiene... Her only wish, as she told me... "I will save
you... and everyone!"
Milanor: Ishiene... You mean the one we just...?
Emelone: She was a kind girl who thought of nothing but her own people. She is
not the only one. I cannot let such people perish... I would be unjust.

Emelone: ...Ahhh...! Princess Yggdra... We have injured so many humans... All...
for what...?
Yggdra: But, you and the Undines are not at fault!
Emelone: Haha... You are so kind... So quick to forgive... Do not... let your
kindness become a weakness... The weak are the first to perish... We are fated
to die... As their queen... I shall lead the way...


Who was weak? On the one hand, one could argue that it was nessiah who took advantage; but do we have any evidence that he is who she was referring to? In the end, she gave Ishiene's death as her justification for fighting to the death. The connection is clear: Ishiene held sway over her, Ishiene was the real power behind the throne. She was dominated by Ishiene and could not stray from the path Inshiene shaped for the Undines. This is her weakness, her decisive flaw; otherwise, she would have accepted peace and survived.

And observe: Ishiene's flaw is plain. By thinking of nothing save her own people, her social bonds are completely ethnocentric. She is in substance a racist.

Of course, ignore the points you can't argue.

Yeah, well... I've made my case. Ours is a tragic world, and in the end there is nothing to reduce the enmity between our PoVs. So be it.

I hardly regard your criticism as just. My instincts tell me the Nessiah viewpoint cannot be substantiated as easily as can the Ishiene perspective.

And completely ignore the Luciana mentioning, as well as the incorrect number of battlefields.

I know you haven't done anything about either of those, I have the page open in a separate tab.

Well I didn't make that part of it, only the timeline and the character profiles. I've left it to the person who started the exhaustive analysis to complete it.

If you want to edit it, be my guest.

In the timeline it states Aegina invaded the Holy Land and attacked Yggdra in BF34. That is incorrect in that Luciana did it. If you did the timeline, why did you put something inaccurate?

I know that, and that's what I put. Brongaa must have changed it.

I appreciate his proofreading, but he has such confidence in his own facts that he will never admit he's wrong that I can see.

Also, Brongaa insists that Juvelon's sect is called Meriant; I recall numerous references to "the Juvelon sect."

So reverse-edit it and tell Brongaa that he's an idiot if he's trying to edit out spoilers.

I recall the whole desert part shoving the name of Meriant into your head.

OK, and what do I do when he reverses it again?

He won't if he knows he's not supposed to be editing out spoilers. I'm 85% certain of that.

It's clear from the script: the entire religion is called Meria.

Milanor: How soon can we get into the Holy Land?
Joachim: Not before we get the Miracle Tiara for the coronation.
Gordon: But, your Eminence... That is in St. Meriata... It's currently under
control by the Juvelon sect.
Joachim: Indeed, but the Coronation cannot proceed without it.
Durant: Have no fear, your Eminence. We shall escort you.
Joachim: Good.
Gordon: The Juvelon sect has been a problem... According to them, only they, the
chosen few, can be saved. They don't hesitate to persecute other sects.
Milanor: So it's a religious war? How stupid. ( I concur, by the way. )

Gordon: The Juvelon warriors are know as the Meriants. They're similar to us in
some ways, but much more violent.


So judging from that, the warriors are Meriants and the sect is Juvelon.

Look here:


Joachim: That I am. The 47th Pope of Meria, Joachim Lia Blaucent. Judging by
your White Phoenix crest, you must be...


So Meria is the religion, Blaucent is the last name of the pope. (it may be something else, but how could we be sure?)


Royal Scout: There's a battle going on in the city up ahead!
Durant: Who is fighting?
Royal Scout: It seems to be the Joachim sect against the Juvelon sect.

( Note: Joachim, as far as I know, actually exists (has something to do with
Catholic/Orthodox religion), but Juvelon does not exist besides in this game. )

Yggdra: Sectarian conflict...? I've never heard of this Juvelon order. Is it
new?
Durant: Yes. The orthodox sect of Meria is Joachim's... While the Juvelon sect
is more elitist and dogmatic.

Then go ahead and fix that too. Mention the script of the game if Brongaa wants to reverse it.

Joachim Mizrahi!

I ran a quick Wikipedia search, Joachim is a saint in Anglican, Roman Catholic, and Orthodox factions. Supposedly, he's the father of Mary.

That was a quote directly from Shadowchaser_91's transcription in his FAQ, and was his observation. (just for the record)

Oh. Well, we actually don't have our own script to reference here at LCN (aside from the one Feral made, but that one is horribly organized), so I can't check the Meria/Meriant thing.

Actually, we have a Rai, so we may check the code in the game sometime to confirm it.

This is the most idiotic thing I've seen all week. Her people are in immediate danger of dying out, and you think that she should worry about a social life?

Fact without structure is useless; for that matter, it may not exist. Fact must be organized around a unifying principle, or at best, it is incomplete. Intuition can determine which unifying principle is most likely given a choice between principles. (in Emelone's case, the Nessiah argument vs the Ishiene argument.)

You spelled Ordene wrong as "Ordeene". I fix that only.

That's all, nothing more. I'll just look around and see it.

Edited: If I'm not mistaken, you're the one in GameFaqs forum that always fight with......Aha!

"Squirts fire at you"

You seem to have completely ignored what I said.

They weren't in immediate danger, were they? Couldn't they have worked with the humans to capture Nessiah? If they had had that trust, then they might have survived through mutual cooperation. Are you sure there were not any voices against Inshiene's own? That Ishiene was unopposed seems unlikely. Remember, the mermaids in the cities had different viewpoints on the matter. Some called Nietzsche a traitor, others their last hope. There was more than one side to this.

In the end, Ishiene was no different than Gulcasa: a closed-minded absolutist to who it was her way or no way.

Did they know who did it, and how to find him?
You can't judge her character in that way while ignoring the circumstances entirely. They've been at peace, and Ishiene's a leader. What good evidence is there to say that she was acting on her own volition, rather than what the queen ordered her to?

In the end, you're not actuallly supporting your claims with strong quotes.

From the script, these are all that I could find.



Silence! Selfish humans...

"Do not interfere, or you will
be next!

W-Why...?

They seem pretty dead set. I
don't think we have a choice.

I am Ishiene, and I carry out
the Queen's orders flawlessly!"


"General Ishiene! It's those
humans again!

Fie on them! Do they intend to
pass through here...?

Under no circumstances will we
let them through!

Queen Emelone is our last hope...

We shall protect her with our
lives!"

Ishiene's death was necessary to secure the bridge to Emelon's palace, and yet, it was also Emelone's rationale for refusing negotiations.


"The Undines have always
despised war.

Queen Emelone always said...

"If death is our destiny, we
must accept it gracefully."

But, some Undines refused to
settle for such a fate.

As their Queen, she couldn't
ignore the people's demands."

The question is, what side was Ishiene on? From her statements, she appears to have been a hawk, as opposed to a dove like Emelone.

Who among the Undines is the will to war? Where is the person who is, for all intents and purposes, Emelon's backbone? We are witness to only two leaders of the Undines, those being Emelone and Ishiene.

It's a really complicated affair. In the end, the Queen probably would have talked peace had Ishiene let them through. The Queen felt she had to die for Ishiene. It was Ishiene who, like Gulcasa, refused to compromise. It's one thing to protect a bridge, another to guard it against a white flag. Of all the available info, the finger points to Ishiene as the primary instigator.

And she IS a general, that much is plain.

One more point: Ishiene asserts that Emelone is the Undine's last hope, even as the people say she has resigned herself to a graceful death. On the one hand you have resignation, and on the other, hope. Two conflicting opinions. There, it is plain: Ishiene's heart is on the side opposite Ishiene's, whatever her official stance.